Indiana SILC: August 8th Public Comment Session

August 8th ICOIL Public Comment Session

Note: no actual ICOIL meeting took place due to no quorum Document
Prepared by Ramona Harvey The People's Secretary (note this document will
be available on the Secretary's Chronicles Documents page
http://www.onecandream.com/ICOIL/documents)

Council Members in Attendance

Voting Council members present: Center Directors: Melissa Madill, Dave
Nelson, Al Tolbert, and Beth Quarles (who arrived late)

Non-Center Directors: Dee Ann Hart, Richard Simers

Ex Officio (non-voting members): Carol Baker (the DSU), Sue Beecher
(Representing council member Tom Gallagher IPAS)

Prior to cancellation of the meeting: 

Ramona Harvey spoke with ICOIL Secretary Al Tolbert, and asked him to make
sure council members used the microphone because as an audience member it
is hard to hear what is going on.  Al Tolbert agreed to that.  She then
asked for a copy of the agenda because she had not received one yet, and
wanted to make sure her official requests were on the agenda.  He directed
her to the handouts in the front of the room.  Ramona Harvey said she
appreciated that, and would also appreciate it if he sent her all the
ICOIL minutes electronically.  Al Tolbert agreed to send her approved
ICOIL minutes via e-mail, and acknowledged that he actually had her
e-mail.  Ramona stated she appreciated that. 

Ramona Harvey spoke with ICOIL Chair Dee Ann Hart and expressed concerns
because her official requests were not on the agenda.  Ramona Harvey noted
that she had copies of all of her official requests if Dee Ann needed
them, and that she even had a copy of her official May 9th request
regarding HB1001 in large print if Dee Ann needed it.  (See
http://www.onecandream.com/ICOIL/documents/officialrequestHB1001.doc) Dee
Ann said that she did not need copies of her official request.  Ramona
confirmed that meant that Dee Ann already had copies. 

The meeting cancellation and Public Comment Session

Dee Ann Hart started the meeting recognizing that there was no quorum and
no official meeting could be held.  No motions could be made, and nothing
could be voted on.  She asked council members present whether they wished
to proceed with discussion, if they would like to adjourn, or if they
would like to hear public comment. 

Council members agreed by consent to sit and listen to public comment for
30 minutes. Though they noted that no business could be done. 

Dee Ann announced that the people sitting at the table who were on the
council would open the floor for public comment.  She defined public
comment: Public comment means we are here to listen, and if there are
things that we need to respond on, it will be done at a future time, and
only if there is something we feel we have the ability to respond to. Dee
Ann further notes if there are comments concerning public policy that
there may be resources the council can refer people to.  She reiterated
that they were there to listen to what the feedback the audience had to
give. Dee Ann asked members of the public to sign in providing their name
and address and stated that it will be done in the order in which people
sign in. 

Public Comments: Beginning with Ramona Harvey

Ramona Harvey asked for clarification on what Dee Ann was saying, and was
directed to a piece of paper that indicated that all members of the public
would be allowed three minutes to comment.  She was told that the public
had to sign in if they wanted to comment, and that comments would be taken
in the order people signed in.  Ramona Harvey asked for a pencil. 

While Ramona Harvey was signing in she asked the members of the council
present when they were going to address her official request about HB1001
(http://www.onecandream.com/ICOIL/documents/officialrequestHB1001.doc). 
Ramona noted that this was not her comment, but before she could finish
what she was saying Dee Ann Hart interrupted her. 

Dee Ann Hart stated that HB1001 is something that is the general
assemblys, and not ICOIL business. 

Ramona Harvey reminded Dee Ann and those present that she was told if she
wrote her concerns down and submitted them that they would be addressed
and that she has never even seen any of her concerns on the agenda. 

*(Peoples Secretarys note: See approx. 4 minutes into part 4 of the
Public March Facilitated Discussion
http://everybodycounts.org/icoil/march2007facdiscussion.htm Further note
Dee Ann, the chair who creates the agenda, is advising Ramona that even
though her hand was raised for over a half hour because I wanted to
introduce herself. She was told she needed to go to the state plan public
hearings that were already completed in order to make a comment on the
state plan (See later public comment session under Greg Meyer for info on
state plans). Dee Ann informs at no time any time during the two day
training will there be public comment, including during the business
meeting. Public comment was not on the agenda period.  This was why I
needed to submit stuff in writing, and as you can see from the video she
indicated that if I submitted stuff in writing to the council they would
address my concerns.)

Dee Ann Hart interrupts Ramona again to state that if Ramona had submitted
something that was an ICOIL concern she would be able to respond to it,
but that this was not an ICOIL concern. 

Ramona Harvey asked if Independent Living funding was not ICOILs concern. 

Dee Ann stated the money that Ramona Harvey was speaking of was not
ICOILs money. 

Ramona Harvey asked again for clarification if what Dee Ann was saying was
that Independent Living Funding in the state of Indiana was not ICOILs
concern. 

Dee Ann stated that she had answered Ramonas question.  She stated if
there was any other issue or personal comment that Ramona wanted to make
that she was welcome to make it.  She reiterated that she was asking only
for public comment and that the members of the council present were only
here to listen. 

Ramona Harvey asked what the policy and procedure was that allowed Dee Ann
to cancel the meeting in July when Jodi James was not allowed to cancel a
meeting in Sept. Dee Ann Hart began to respond stating that members of the
council had contacted her, but before she could finish her response
Melissa Madill interrupted her. 

Melissa Madill stated that it was her understanding that public comment
was a time to pose questions, but not to have them answered.  She stated
it was a time to talk about what concerns people have, and that the people
at the table were there to listen to those concerns, but that if there
needed to be a response from the council that the council would respond at
a future time.  She stated that questions could be asked, but not to
expect an answer right then. 

Ramona Harvey stated that she had been asking these questions for several
months. 

Melissa Madill stated that did not matter.  Today if members of the public
wanted to give council members comments or ask questions then those
comments and questions would be written down. 

Ramona Harvey stated that she would like to comment that they were being
ridiculous, because she has several important written requests that the
council has received.  Ramona Harvey requested that the council at least
provide her with information as to what she may have done that members of
the council thought was so wrong that in Sept, they could not wait another
month to have an official election. 

After a brief pause where Ramona Harvey received no response she clarified
that basically last year there were going to have official elections, and
if members of the council did not like the accuracy or the length of her
minutes they could have waited a month for the election and then they
would not have had to waive the bylaws and slander peoples names.  She
wanted to know what was so important that the council could not just wait
until October for the elections.  She also stated that this also goes into
the whole issue of what did Jodi James do but cancel a meeting.  Ramona
Harvey indicated that she had supported Jodi James because she had a
reasonable belief that there would not be a quorum. (See
http://www.onecandream.com/ICOIL/documents/ICOILmembershipattendancemay-nov.doc)

Dee Ann indicated someone was willing to respond to Ramona. 

Carol Baker stated in response to Ramona that the reasons she was no
longer on the council had been addressed to her in a letter sent from the
Governors office. (further info see Secretarys Chronicles at
http://www.onecandream.com/ICOIL and the onecandream dimenet archive at
http://www.onecandream.com/dimenet.html)

Ramona Harvey clarified that her question had not been why she was not on
the council, but rather why was she removed from office without due
process, and what had she done prior to that.  She also noted for the
record, that the letter that came from the governors office was not
actually signed by the Governor, and that there were still actually issues
about that, though this was not actually the current issue.  She stated
the issue was needing to know what she had done that constituted
slanderous allegations against her name without the council being required
to provide evidence. 

*(The Peoples Secretarys note: The removal in question occurred at the
September gathering.this would be the meeting that Jodi James
officially cancelled and then rescheduled to a later date in Sept. in
accordance to the bylaws and existing procedures.  She did so with the
support of the majority of the then Executive Committee, which at that
time included Keith Coros. 

The removal letter from the Governors office was not sent until December
after Jodi James and Ramona Harvey along with Teresa Torres of Everybody
Counts, and Emma Sullivan of Indiana FACES met with Jon Vanator for 9
hours. (this is the guy that appoints people to the council.) He still has
not sent us the official written policies and procedures that the governor
uses to appoint people to the council, which assures the council will be
made up of qualified individuals, the majority of which are people with
disabilities not employed by a CIL. 

For those who need a brief clarification of the overarching time lines
involved, or the steps that were taken to work with the system and
council, I recommend reading or listening to the historically accurate
poem Empowerment Hell found at
http://www.onecandream.com/writings/EmpowermentHell.htm )

Melissa Madill responded not as a council member.  She stated that she was
tired of hearing about slander she knows her name has been slandered all
over he place for no reason.  She stated the fact that Ramona was removed
from office was not slandering her name.  She reiterated that nobody
slandered Ramonas name.  Melissa stated she was tired of hearing the
accusation and reading things all over the internet about council members
that are not based on truth.  She told Ramona not to bring issues of
slander to the council, but told her instead to look at herself in the
mirror. 

Ramona responded by saying, okay, so you would not consider dereliction
of duty, misconduct, and breech of ethics without providing evidence
slander?

Melissa indicated she did not consider that slander. 

Ramona Harvey stated that there had to be something that the council then
used to come up with that allegation.  She stated that certainly she had
to have done something, and that if that was not the case then their
should be at least something that Jodi James did.  Ramona stated that what
she and Jodi James did was follow the bylaws and policies and procedures
that were in place. 

Ramona stated that what she needed to know is what actually occurred that
made it so the council could not just wait a month and follow the bylaws
themselves. 

Dee Ann stated that the council was there to address issues on how the
council effects people with disabilities.  Dee Ann asked Ramona to explain
how the concerns she was bringing to the table was effecting other people
with disabilities. 

Ramona Harvey stated that it effects people with disabilities, because
when the council is not listening to people with disabilities in the state
of Indiana, the council is not going to be able to serve them.  Ramona
stated that she has not seen any evidence of this council actually
listening to the public and working with their comments. 

Ramona notes these are definitely issues that effect people with
disabilities because currently the council is not consumer controlled. 
She noted that Jodi James and herself were two individuals with
disabilities not associated with a CIL, that had nothing to gain or loose
fiscally by the what happened on the council.  On the other hand there are
several Center Directors on the council that do gain fiscally.  Further
they have an obligation to their communities, and they are working for a
CIL.  So it does impact people with disabilities because these people are
making decisions and they are making these decisions based on their own
agendas. 

Melissa stated that it is false to make an assumption that council members
are not talking with people with disabilities in the community.  She told
Ramona that she was not the spokesperson for the people with disabilities
in the state of Indiana. 

Melissa stated that they communicate with people with disabilities on a
daily bases and hear what they have to say. 

Al Tolbert noted that the three minutes are up and that needs to be
enforced. 

Dee Ann Hart tells Ramona that every person around the table whether they
are a consumer, a center director, or an agency representative gets
feedback on a daily bases from people with disabilities.  That is why Dee
Ann feels that when she comes to the table she does so with the interest
of people with disabilities on her mind. 

Ramona stated then that they should not try to avoid people that are
making public comments and put three minute limits on it either. 

Dee Ann states she is moving to the next person because Ramonas 3 minutes
are up. 

Several council members indicated that they really did not care about the
three minute comment rule, as long as everyone had the opportunity to
speak.  Noting that there were only 3 people who signed up to comment,
they decided they could maybe divide the time up equally between the
people who wanted to talk.  They debated on whether or not to let Ramona
have more time to finish, and generally decided it was okay for people to
speak more then 3 mins. 

Dee Ann lets Ramona know that the people at the table would hear her out. 

Ramona stated that for now what she wanted to say was that she needed the
council to officially address her official requests that have been
submitted in writing at an official council meeting where there is a
quorum which is open to the public.  She then stated that she would like
to give the other individuals an opportunity to speak and after they spoke
they could then come back and speak with her. 

In response Dee Ann asked the members of the council who were at the table
to be prepared to respond to Ramonas official request if they had a
response.  She noted she did not. 

Ramona Harvey clarified that there were several official request not just
one. 

The council begins to go to the next person, but Richard Simers had a
question regarding what constituted an official request.  Nobody at the
table seemed to be sure of the answer to that question, or for that matter
if members of the public were able to make official requests of the
council. Melissa Madill thought that might be a topic for discussion. 

Greg Meyer

Greg stated he was intrigued by the board, and noted that he has not seen
any progress in the last six months and perhaps longer.  But he has been
watching for six months. 

Greg addressed Dee Ann Hart about an e-mail he sent two weeks ago asking
for the date and location of the ICOIL meeting.  He also asked for the
agenda because the council does not provide the Agenda in alternative
formats for people with visual impairments like himself.  He said that Dee
Ann never responded, but that if she needed a copy of that e-mail he would
resend it a second time. 

Dee Ann indicated she did respond to that e-mail

Greg stated that last month for the July meeting she did respond and say
the meeting was cancelled. But for the e-mail sent for this month that he
had sent out two weeks ago he asked for the date, the location, and the
agenda, because as indicated earlier the agenda is not available to him in
alternative formats for him at this time. 

Dee Ann stated that she sent the agenda to Greg on the same day as she
sent the agenda to the council, though she noted that she did so under
separate cover.  She said it was a word document attached to an e-mail. 

Dave Nelson asked if Dee Ann had a record of that and she said that she
did. 

Melissa Madill asked Greg if his request was for the meeting date and
time, or if it was for the accommodation? 

Greg stated that it was for the date, time, and Agenda of the August
meeting. 

Melissa stated that if Greg needed something in alternative format that
request needed to be made in advance. 

Dee Ann noted that Greg had requested the agenda be sent to him via e-mail
as an accommodation. Dee Ann stated and that is what it received, or
should have received.  She stated that some times electronics misplaced
documents, and that there are times that even e-mails that she receives on
a regular basis in separate or bulk or spam folder.  She's just said that
Greg checked to see if her e-mail got filtered into one of these folders. 

Greg stated that yet another concern because the bylaws indicated that
directors be on the board, but also later indicated no employees of
independent living centers can be on the board. 

Ramona Harvey clarified for Greg that the Council is supposed to be a
majority of people with disabilities not employed by a CIL. 

Greg directed his next concern to Dave Nelson reminding the council that
he was a person with a disability concerned about people with
disabilities.  His question was, why didnt the Council have an agenda
which contained new business and old business and talked about what the
centers were doing for people with disabilities so that centers could
communicate and the public could see what is going on. Greg noted he has
not seen what CILs are doing in the past 6 months. 

Greg noted the reason he was asking this is because in the last six months
there have been three meetings canceled, one meeting lasting 10 minutes,
and another a lasting 11.  He noted that the meeting room was reserved for
four hours. 

Dave Nelson responded saying center directors did not use Council meetings
to communicate with each other.  He noted center directors get together
outside of Council meetings to communicate and they did share on a regular
bases, but that was done outside of the council because the purpose of the
council was not for Center Directors to have a way to communicate. 

Greg stated he understood and asked why CILs could not present what they
are doing to the public. 

Dave Nelson stated that each center decided what they do for the public.
Dave indicated that his center had an electronic and hardcopy newsletter,
and he would add to Greg to the mailing list if he wished.  Melissa Madill
offered to provide Greg IRCILs newsletter as well. 

Greg asked for the minutes of the state meetings in February where the
public had the opportunity to speak about the state plan.  He stated he
would like to have a copy of those minutes if they were available. 

Ramona Harvey stated she would also like to have a copy of those minutes. 

Al Tolbert indicated he would send those minutes to them by e-mail. 

Greg asked if there were actually minutes of the public expressing
concerns. 

Al stated he would give Greg the approved February minutes.  He also
invited Greg to look at his Centers webpage to learn what his center is
doing. 

Greg stated he just wanted the minutes for the public hearings meeting so
he knows what people had to say about it, because he was unaware the
public hearings were offered locally in the city of Indianapolis. 

Dee Ann Hart stated there was a meeting in Indianapolis, South Bend, and
one in Bloomington.  She stated there were transcripts for two of them,
but the third did not have any comments that were in the transcript. 

Ramona reiterated a desire to have copy of those transcripts

Dave Nelson asked Dee Ann Hart, if where public comment was made the
Council had verbatim transcripts of those public comments that could be
sent to both Greg and Ramona.  Dee and confirmed they did. 

It was noted that in all three locations transcriptionists were hired for
those meetings.  Ramona Harvey asked if that meant there were three
transcripts.  Dee and said yes, but other Council members clarified that
only two of the meetings had public comment, and there was no public
comment in Bloomington. 

Ramona Harvey asked if that meant there was no transcript for Bloomington,
and was told there was no transcript because nobody said anything. 

Colleen Helmeniack

Colleen expressed concern because many soldiers, young men and women, were
coming back with significant disabilities.  This is going to tax the
current system, and they're going to need more than what's out there now. 
She asked if the Council of addressed this future need of more expanded
and varied services. Colleen thought this would be a big concern because
the Council's job is to advocate and work to empower people with
disabilities, and more and more people are becoming disabled every day. 
She wanted to know if the Council ever put any thought into this because
she didn't recall it being mentioned. 

Sue Beecher from Protection and Advocacy commented that it is the struggle
considering what is happening to the budget nationally in the last few
years, and it has been a fight with congress o get monies put back in. 

Colleen indicated she has been keeping up with what is going on
nationally. 

Sue indicated that another issue is that the Dept. of Defense is
completely different from the veterans association so people fall through
the cracks.  This is an issue that IPAS is continuing to look at and
trying to figure out.  She agreed this was a good issue for ICOIL to work
on. 

Melissa Madill commented that individual centers are working with the VAs
on this issue.  She agreed it should be a Council topic and stated she
could not wait until they got to the point where they could have
discussions, but the meetings have been so disrupted by public members
that the council really hasnt been able to discuss issues. 

Colleen stated her bottom-line question was has the Council even mention
this because it is going to be a serious issue. 

Dee Ann stated many Council members have probably been exposed to what's
being said, nationally about this issue.  It is becoming more prevalent
and advocacy circles, but the Council has not addressed the issue.  She
stated as it had already been noted, that because of disruptive behavior
the Council hasn't been able to get much accomplished in that regard. 

Dave Nelson addressed the concern, not speaking as a Council member. He
noted that several center directors, as center directors and not Council
members, did talk to people in the General Assembly about this very thing
saying we need to think about this right now because these young people
who are in the military are coming home and there is going to be more of
them. 

Dave stated that on a center by center bases, they did have concerns about
this. 

Melissa Madill noted that it's pretty well known that a lot of folks wo
come back, especially with mental health issues, do not want to go through
and be the VA system or the systems that are connected with them being and
military duty.  Melissa stated that that is a population that IRCIL is
working with Key Consumer Association to try and create another safe place
they can come to deal with disability related issues. 

Colleen stated she hoped the Council and center directors would work
together, because this is an issue that would not be solved in two weeks,
a month, or a year, but cohesiveness was needed to make a change for
people coming back. 

Al Tolbert commented he did not know what ICOIL could do to address this
issue, but that he and Richard Simers were working with this issue.  He
suggested Colleen get involved with a Veterans organization and provide
support.  Al did not know if ICOIL could address all the concerns. 

Colleen stated there are going to be more more people looking to centers
for answers they can't get through the VA. or the Department of Defense. 

Al Tolbert asked Colleen if she had visited a VA Hospital. He recommended
she visit one to see if she could get some of her answers addressed. 

Dee Ann stated, the paralyzed veterans and veterans associations have
always been strong within the independent living movement.  She told
Colleen that any interaction or feedback she could provide those
organizations about her experience could help them in their advocacy
efforts. 

Colleen stated bottom-line this is an issue she believed the Council
needed to step up when and not just sit and talk about for 10 years, but
she asked them to actually do something to make a difference for the
soldier who for whatever reason in is denied or does not have access to
assistance they need. 

Dave Nelson made a comment but due to poor sound unable to summarize. 

Dee Ann Hart acknowledged Ric Edwards and gave him an opportunity to
speak. 

Ric Edwards

Ric apologized for not signing up, and introduced himself stating he had
not intended to speak, but there were a few points that were raised that
he felt were worth him saying something, so Council members that were
present could digest what he said.  He noted he was not looking for a
formal response, but he wanted the council to think about these concerns. 

Ric commented that if there was a hearing in Bloomington, where nobody
showed up or made any public comments, that means either were doing over
you we really good job in Indiana in independent living, or we are doing a
really bad job at getting the word out.  Because Bloomington has one of
the more highly motivated groups of people with disabilities.  He stated,
we should've had somebody saying something at a public hearing in
Bloomington on independent living. 

Regarding the bill brought up about independent living funding, Ric
respectfully disagreed with Dee Ann and council members if they thought
that a bill which funded independent living is not ICOIL business.  He
stated there is something wrong, because one of the primary reasons for
ICOIL is to try does do something to secure funding for independent living
in Indiana. A bill that deals with that, Ric thought, should be the
Independent Living Councils business.  He did not know the ins and outs
of what took place, but some centers were not included in that
legislation.  He stated, if he was a Council member, he would want to know
why that was. 

Melissa wished to comment, and was asked to allow Ric to finish with his
comments before doing so.  She agreed too.  Ric stated that if someone did
have a comment that he felt the people who raised that as an issue should
be allowed to hear that issue. Melissa stated it is not as an ICOIL
council member that she was going to comment. 

Ric pointed out that there has been a question raised about procedure,
process, and historical actions that have been taken with council members.
Ric stated he was not here to address that, and he did not have the
information to address it, but he encouraged everyone to make sure that if
they have not dotted is and crossed ts that they make sure that was
done.  He stated he has read some of the stuff on the internet and seen
some of the stuff and he noted that it does not look good for anyone in
Indiana on any side.  He encouraged everyone that if there were processes
and procedures that were not followed, or if corners were cut then he
encouraged people to take a look at that and see what could be done to
rectify that. 

Lastly is the chair of the ADA steering committee in Indiana, he announced
that there is a bus tour coming to Indiana in October.  He would like to
be able to work with centers for independent living to try to get the word
out about that.  He noted that Emma of Indiana FACES was coordinating this
in Merrillville, and he has been working with her, and hoping he can work
those present as well. 

Melissa asked if Ric would be in touch with them about the Bus tour and he
said that he would be. 

Melissa Madill responded to Rics comment as Melissa Madill director of
IRCIL and not a council member.  She stated that we found out, sometime
last year, that as of October 1, 2008 there would be no more state funding
for centers for independent living.  She stated that that funding impacted
the CILs that were receiving state funds.  She stated that it was those
centers that were impacted by this decision that went to the legislators
to secure funding and they would no longer be getting for Centers for
Independent Living period. 

Dee Ann asked if there were any more public comments

Colleen Helmeniack noted there was quite a bit of talk about the public
hearings, and she knows that dates were discussed because she was at the
meetings, but she does not know when the dates were finalized.  She stated
she never heard anything about set dates, or where they were going to be
or what was the final results. 

Sue Beecher commented that getting public input at public hearings is very
difficult.  She said she had attended more then one public hearing where
people attend, but dont comment for whatever reason whether they just
dont have a comment to offer, have not read the report, or have just come
to hear what other people have to say.  She said that IPAS has found that
is not the best way to gather public input which is why they ask for
written comments, and post their plan on the internet and also try to get
notification into the newspapers, but they have a poor track record of
getting public comment from people physically coming to different
locations of the state.  She noted that VR has the same problem.  She
noted she sat through VR public hearings where nobody has anything to say
even when they are in Indianapolis. 

Colleen noted she sat through her share of meetings like that, but she
also knows that these particular public hearings were of some interest to
friends of hers that kept calling her for information on when the public
hearings would be and she couldnt tell them because she never got the
information about the finalized places and times.  She did not even think
this information was on the website. 

Ramona Harvey noted that she did not receive any notification by e-mail of
these meetings or anything. 

Carol Baker stated articles were put in the paper, and she asked Nancy
Young if the information was put on the website.  Nancy said that she did. 
Carol continues to say they were listed on the FSSA website, and she noted
that they used the same exact procedure that they use for VR public
hearings every year. 

Colleen noted that she checked the website because she knew the
approximate time frame these meetings were supposed to occur and saw no
notice. 

Carol noted that this information was in the minutes of ICOIL, as well as
on the website and newspaper ads, and then usually the VR offices in those
areas put up notices to.  *See peoples secretary note at the end. 

Melissa Madill noted IRCIL sent notice of the public hearings to their
entire mailing list. 

Ramona Harvey asked if someone could send this information to her because
she has requested several times to have all information about public
meetings sent to her via e-mail and she knows that the council has her
address, but she never received anything from the council regarding this. 

Melissa Madill stated with all due respect that she doesnt have all
information about all public meetings sent to her. 

Ramona Harvey stated that she should because she was on the council. 

In response Ramona Harvey was told that she had to make an effort to get
the information about public hearings. 

Melissa stated that in general across the board and not just with ICOIL,
if she wants to go to a public meeting she has to seek out that
information. 

Ramona Harvey stated that she has specifically requested multiple times to
have that information sent, and if the council schedules a time, then the
council has her e-mail and it does not take that much to send. 

Ramona was interrupted by council members saying it does not take much
time for her to look up the information. 

Melissa stated, that this was general procedure of every council. 

Ramona asked, but you already have difficulty communicating with the
public, and if the public asks you to communicate to them wouldnt it
behoove you to actually do that? 

Dee Ann stated they did communicate with the public by publishing the info
on the FSSA website.  Dee Ann stated that if she responded to Ramonas
request and sent the information to her she would be responding to a
private request not a public one. (*PS note: My request to receive info
via e-mail has been made openly and publicly.)

Ramona Harvey responded telling Dee Ann to send the information to the
entire e-mail list of anybody that you have that has requested information
not just her.  She notes she is not just asking for her, but everybody who
has ever requested information that I know you have e-mails for.  You
should have an e-mail list, and you should maintain it and send the
information to the public. 

Dave Nelson commented that the information was posted and that it was
known where the information was and so the initiative needed to be taken
to look it up.  He commented that they should not treat people with
disabilities like they cant do that for themselves. 

Ramona responded by pointing out that the problem with that was that the
FSSA calendar is not always accurate.  She gave the example of last month
when she looked on the calendar but the meeting was cancelled and the
calendar did not tell her this.  There is some discrepancy between what
gets posted on the FSSA website and the actual meeting schedule.  Ramona
asked them to use the mailing list that they have and keep the public
informed when they schedule meetings then some of that would be
alleviated.  She stated this was not unrealistic. 

Melissa Madill stated that the council does not always know when a meeting
is going to be cancelled. 

Ramona stated that what she was saying was that if they maintained the
list and sent it out to the people that they were aware of

Melissa interrupts stating that it is an idea, but she did not feel the
council was ready to go there. 

Dee Ann Stated that the half hour allotted for public comment has been
exceeded.  She believes that they had heard from everyone sitting in the
audience who have expressed an interest to make public comment.  She asked
if the council members present were ready to conclude todays session. 

Everyone readily agreed, and the session was ended.  However, council
members did not appear to be in a hurry to actually leave and stayed
around for quite a bit longer. 

(*Peoples Secretarys note regarding receipt of public hearing info in
official ICOIL minutes:  The Peoples Secretary must assume that Carol
Baker is referring to Al Tolberts minutes and versions of the meetings
which can be found on the Secretarys Chronicles documents page at:
http://www.onecandream.com/ICOIL/documents (note: current ICOIL practice
makes it difficult the public to access minutes, agendas etc. The council
ignores my repeated request to have all official notices of meetings and
documents sent to me via e-mail, even though I request this partially
because of my disability.  Also note that their minutes say letters would
be sent out regarding place and time of SIL meetings.)

What the December minutes say regarding the Public hearings

The Chair reported that the State Planning Committee is planning Public
Hearing in January 2007. The Public Hearings will be posted on the
website. Additionally, letters will go out this month on the place and
time for each Public Hearing. There will be a SPIL PH facilitation and
training session at the next meeting of ICOIL for the facilitators of the
SPIL PH. 

What the January minutes say regarding Public Hearings

Richard Simers suggested that the DSU be part of the Public Hearings on
the State Plan (SPIL). Carol Baker stated that she would send someone to
the hearings. (note: considerably less then Decembers meetingFYI
Secretarys Chronicles contains a draft version of the January minutes but
it is identical to the final version as no changes were made when the
minutes were approved. But these minutes were not approved for several
months anyway as there was no meeting in February, March, or April.))

This document was prepared by Ramona Harvey  the Peoples Secretary, on
August 9, 2007.